Please note that Cafe Astrology uses the Tropical Zodiac by default. In Sidereal astrology,Venus is in Leo here. Mark you calendars! In astronomy, they refer to two other systems of ecliptic coordinates. Virgo Asc Cancer Sun, Venus, Mercury 11H Capricorn Moon 5H Virgo Mars 12H Taurus Jupiter, Chiron, MC, SN 9H Scorpio Uranus, NN 3H Leo Saturn 11H Sagittarius Neptune 4H Libra Pluto 2H. The harder and better way is revising all of these ancient systems to be able to handle the extra precision weve been able to find. I had a reading yesterday with Patrick, and it was one of the most helpful, thorough and on-target readings of my life. The Tropical Zodiac is based on the seasons in the Northern Hemisphere and is the system used in Western Astrology. Mercury's nocturnal sign is associated with skills, trades, industriousness, measurements and exactitudes. This never changes, except that due to axial precession, each equinox and solstice appears to shift backward 1 degree every 72 years, relative to the stars. Also with Pisces, the word soma , i believe also means how we feel. Sidereal vs. This is true in a literal sense, because the constellations we currently see will only be arranged in this way for a brief time on a cosmic scale, and the images projected onto the stars reflect animals that only existed contemporaneously with human beings in the evolutionary timeline. I continue to read your work with interest. Just as the stars are irregularly scattered about, so would the sidereal zodiac reflect the irregularity of the ocean/weather/climate. Zodiacal motion runs opposite of diurnal motion. Additionally, it bases on how we see the stars from here on earth, rather than on their fixed positions in the heavens. Tropical Leo Suns may be known for having big hair, but not because lions have big bushy manes, but because a lions mane looks visually similar to a radiating Sun, because Leo is the sign ruled by the Sun. Its just astronomical fact. Id say itd be worth it to incarnate at that time just to join in the debate! He's a really cool guy with great character. More importantly, Patrick was fun, personable, and very good at explaining the complicated aspects in a way that made sense. them really simply and thoroughly. This would work long into the future but eventually, over long periods of time as the stars shift position, they could conceivably move into a new sidereal/galactic sign. In such cases a tropical astrologer would have to think about how the appearance of the star itself might inform its benefic or malefic nature, somewhat divorced in a sense from its position within that constellation. From this perspective, the friction between the tropical and the sidereal zodiacs comes from a disagreement about the Suns place in the hierarchy relative to other stars. He asked great questions and explained why he saw things the way he did. Tropical date. Nick Dagan Best is investigating this sort of neo-Babylonian approach by sussing out the exoteric correlations of the synodic cycles of Venus and Mars, with, um, astounding results. And as others have said, he has a great sense of humor; in my opinion, the value of that cannot be overstated! The Leo keyphrase is I WILL. helpful insights into the topics I expressed my curiosity about. The sidereal zodiac is not symbolic but is oriented to an observable phenomenon. He guided me so well that I now found how to, get rid of the problems I had with my grandmother. Time (local time) h min. Its 12th is Libra. Natives that are Virgo ascendants, have Mercury as their . No doubt it will positively impact future astrological thinking. , I wish I had an experience like the other people here but mine was lacking. Tropical (green) and sidereal (orange). Tropical is a uniquely western thing and is in the same spirit as imperial measurement. He gives you a great perspective on your life and how it unravels by pinpointing period in your past that will echo through today (and tomorrow!). Basically, I had all the makeups of a Cancer rising. However, the systems devised by the hellenists and vedics really dont work at all when you increase precision. I ended the session feeling optimistic about my future, and knowing when to expect some trouble related to two difficult placements. Patrick was professional, funny, and sensitive to the topics of our discussion. The sidereal system is based on the current position of the constellations. Table of Contents show. Currently the zero Aries point compared to the Solar Seasons can be figured out like the ancients did, that being where is the suns exact location when it hits the tropic of Cancer and does its mini retrograde that many do not speak about. This is not to confuse the sidereal zodiac with the constellational zodiac, its a rough approximation of the constellations. Wait, I thought that it is Sidereal that moves and Tropical is fixed? The only way these could logically be integrated with the sidereal zodiac is if sidereal Gemini, Virgo, Sagittarius and Pisces assumed more cardinal characteristics since that is where the Sun is at the beginning of the seasons sidereally. Subtract the ayanamsha or 23 degrees from each tropical planetary position and the ascendant to get their Sidereal position. Very well thought out, I really enjoyed reading your perspectives. The tropical zodiac would need new names for its signs to properly differentiate itself from constellations and the sidereal zodiac. What I find is that I can shoehorn my experience and objective knowledge of myself into Tropical. This is what I think the relationship is like between the tropical and sidereal zodiac. Required fields are marked *. In their astrological interpretation, they used both sidereal and tropical reasoning, according to Robert Hands On the Invariance of the Tropical Zodiac. By Vaughn Paul Manley, M.A. Whereas, the opposite could be argued to be the case because your Vedic chart is related to the actual observable fixed stars and your Western chart is symbolic. He provided me with insight and. Tropical astrology uses the Spring Equinox as the point when the Sun moves into the 1st degree of the sign Aries. Humans in our modern form have been around the past 200,000 years. Its a cop-out. ever-expanding knowledge, and a hilarious sense of humor. Leo (Aug 7 Sep 14) *Virgo (Sep 15 Nov 3) Libra (Nov 4 Nov 22) Scorpio (Nov 23 Dec 6) Ophiuchus (Dec 7 Dec 18) . Each year is like one sign of the zodiac. ( unknown time ) Birth city: ( Enter coordinates manually ) chart. Peace, Love and Cheers. Thanks a lot for your clarification. This was an interesting, insightful reading with one of todays leading practitioners of ancient Hellenistic Astrology. I cant guarantee I wont make some mistakes here but this is how Im currently thinking about it. On a much longer timeframe, over the course of millennia, the position of stars will have appreciably changed and 0 Aries would no longer be determinable from the constellations because for all practical purposes the constellation of Aries would no longer exist. So how do we reconcile this? Ancient authors frequently use the rising or setting or various stars and constellations to specify the time of year. In astrology, sidereal and tropical terms are used to describe two different year meanings. This would dovetail with my theory of the tropical zodiac representing the regularities of life on Earth, whats archetypally eternal and recurring. Cancer: July 17 to August 6. Predictive astrologers too. The tropical zodiac remains valid because it was born in a particular era whose imprint remains relevant throughout all time, just the same way as an individuals natal chart is imprinted upon their character throughout their entire life. However, as I was born into the universe? Precession accounts for the 25 day shift of the signs. In tropical and sidereal astrology, they break up the constellations into equal sections that are 30 degrees each. I really enjoyed his consultation and. Highly, highly recommended! Now there are some whove responded to this idea by saying that considering time scales this vast is meaningless because stellar motion is so gradual as to be imperceptible over a human lifetime and even several generations of people. This reminds me in some ways of the debate in music over fixed do and movable do. Perhaps tropical Leo in previous eras was a more gentle solar sign, perhaps in another era it will be seen as a more domineering and intimidating solar sign. So much confusion out there. If you were a Leo born Aug 15, you are a now a cancer under the sidereal zodiac. I explain my whole theory in depth here: A Solution To The Tropical Zodiacs Hemorrhoids Hemisphere Problem. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. We even celebrate Labor Day when the Sun is in this sign, so Mercury's nocturnal earthy home is in Labora. In Vedic or sidereal astrology the calculation of the Sun passing through the 1st degree of Aries is marked by the Sun passing through the actual observable fixed stars making up the constellation Aries and has nothing to do with the seasons. Not only do the constellational images seem to be informed by a planetary ruler rather than the other way around, but the constellational images themselves reference tropical eventssuch as the Scales for Libra, where day and night are balanced at the September equinox. The March equinox is 0 Aries. So when the astrology skeptic asks The tropical and sidereal zodiacs have drifted about 24 degrees apart. (5) Since the separation of the two zodiacs occurs at about 50 seconds per year, a little mathematics shows when Fagan-Bradley believed the two zodiacs coincided. Ive been attracted to astrology for about 30 years, mostly via friends in the field. Many centuries before the Europeans were debating over whether the earth was flat, the Vedic rishis were figuring out exactly what effect the Earths wobble would have on the calculations of their ephemeriss! The question is what sign constellation do you assign to the planets? Read More. RT @saturnsscepter: That Tropical Virgo to Sidereal Leo switch will never click in my birth chart lmaooo I've been looking at that shit for 10 years now waiting to feel it I see it in so many other Sidereal Leos but never in myself like not even a little bit. Neither would be wrong because its true that we are in a ship in the ocean and that there is an ocean with a ship in it. I definitely look forward to further consultations as I dig deeper into my astrological studies. I highly recommend Patrick. Historically, its generally agreed, that the two zodiacs were in alignment with one another about the year 285 A.D. with both sidereal and tropical ephemeris listing the passage of the Sun into Aries at the Spring equinox. Our north is the front of our solar system. An easy way to do this in your head, if the planets degrees are less than 23 degrees in any given sign, is to add 7 degrees and go back a sign. HIGHLY RECOMMENDED! This system divides the year into 12 equal parts, assigning one sign of the Zodiac to each part. Tl, dr: If youre thinking about doing a reading with Patrick, go for it! Mr. Patrick is a great astrologer. Best system ever. Leo's are strong, bold and courageous. Now here's where it gets complicated. Venus is the atmakaraka and thus in the svamsha. He is a genius that has studied Tesla, Stienmetz, Heaviside, Maxwell and is known to be the top expert on fields/magnetism/physics and metaphysics. The time flew by, spend the extra $ for a longer consult! The Sidereal position would be 18 degrees Taurus. I'd give an example of a female that mention she's a Virgo moon . Patrick is not just skilled at chart interpretation; he thinks like a scientist, continually working out techniques that emerged from recent translations, which, in my opinion, always contain an interpretive dimension, particularly 2,000 years beyond the writing of the text and the culture within which the text was produced. The Vedic system is often considered to be better at describing the soul nature and predicting actual events because its tied to the actual fixed constellations. The Sidereal Zodiac is based on the fixed . Whos fixed now, bitch?!? Vedic Astrology has to its credit about seven thousand years and millions of believers pouring conscious energy into the mold formed of its mythology. My opinion here, is that the sidereal zodiac (and the whole house system) provides us an accurate, albeit not precise view of the cosmos. Wow! Isnt one enough? Tropical Zodiac versus Sidereal Zodiac Both the sidereal zodiac and the tropical zodiac get there basis from the constellation zodiac. This means in 25,920 years, the tropical zodiac will have made a full rotation against a given fixed point in space. Way he did the systems devised by the hellenists and vedics really work... In astrology, Venus is the front of our solar system make some mistakes but... 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